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New professional Catch 22: "Amazing application/interview," yet no one will give me a job Options · View
schabot
Posted: Friday, November 07, 2008 6:11:57 PM

Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/7/2008
Posts: 3
Points: 9
Location: Toronto, Canada
Hello everyone. First time poster, long time lurker.

I finished my MLIS (MISt here in Toronto) in April, and officially graduated (at the top of the class I might mention) in June. I worked my student job as a library tech in the central library on campus until the end of September, when I had to leave because I was no longer registered as a student. During my two years I could not break in to a graduate position on the reference desk. Now I am forced to temp to make ends meet, and even then I am just scraping by.

During this time I must have applied to almost 40 job postings all over Canada, and some to the US. I have received call backs for only 6 interviews. And I did get one job offer, but turned it down more for personal reasons than professional ones: it was in a smaller and distant city, and my partner was sorting out her career as well at the time, and we decided against it.

Boy, do I regret that decision now.

Over these six months I have improved my application until it is as good as it can be. I have had my letter and resume reviewed by multiple working academic librarians, all who said it was an outstanding application, better then they usually get. I have crafted and honed them until they showcase who I am and the passion I bring, without being overconfident.

When I do get an interview they seem to go very well (except one I futzed up). Those who were kind enough to give feedback (do you know how hard it is to even get them to call you after an interview!?!), they say I did an excellent job. Personable, passionate, engaged. My latest rejection person said that I was outstanding.

I was even honoured to be nominated by a former president of the Canadian Library Association to attend a summit with the top senior professionals and association members as a junior professional representative.

Yet, what does everyone say when I don't get the job? Someone had more reference experience! Is that what it's come down to, asking open and closed questions, over all of the soft leadership and interpersonal skills I was told time and time again were more important? I've participated on committees. Some students and I formed an advocacy task force at our school to lobby the administration for changes in our Faculty. I am ready to spread this love I have for the library and ideas through outreach and public service.

Yet, I don't have enough reference experience! Well, this is the classic Catch-22: Everyone wants practical experience from me, but no one will give me a job.

What is even more ironic? I seem to get most of my interviews at the larger universities in urban centres. They want more experience (why even call me in then, you can see from my resume what experience I have!?!?).

Everyone says I need to get out of the city to get experience. But the smaller, more distant schools won't even call me!

HELP! Brick wall
bcgray
Posted: Friday, November 07, 2008 7:08:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Management - Moderator , Member

Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 348
Points: 922
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
They call you in because of all the experiences and skills you mention. It all comes down to a comparison against the other candidates which becomes more clear after interviews. They obviously see your talent and passion. There is nothing you can do about the people that also apply.

It is great you have had people review your resume. Have you taken it to the next step and had people you do not know review your resume? It is very "bias" if everyone does the review knows you. You will get more honest advice and opinions of those that do not know you. People that know you understand the points you are making in your resume. People that do not know you need the resume to be written just like that of a reviewing search committee.

If you are applying for jobs that you are qualified, you just keep doing that. There is nothing you can do if a more experience person applies as well.

You may need to look at less than ideal positions to get your reference experience if you feel that is the skill holding you back.

Also, you mentioned how hard it is to get feedback from organizations. There is a simple reason for this - lawsuits. Non-HR people are often told to avoid such situations as they are not trained in what is legal and/or illegal to say.

Brian C. Gray
Head of Reference & Engineering Librarian
Kelvin Smith Library
Case Western Reserve University
http://blog.case.edu/bcg8
bcg8@case.edu
jbruckner
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 3:09:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Jumpstart - Moderator , Member

Joined: 11/18/2007
Posts: 73
Points: -69
Location: Wisconsin
Something to consider here is that a good number of people in this field have experienced what you are experiencing: a tight job market and frustrations with employers not giving you a shot. With that being said, I want to reaffirm how important it is to roll with the punches when you are job hunting, and regroup after each interview that hasn't panned out.

I'll take the time to tell you that if you are getting interviews with your resume, you should pat yourself on the back. Some people in this field will send out piles and piles of resumes and never get a call back for an interview (these people must be pulling their hair out.) If your lack of experience in a reference setting is what is keeping you from landing fulfilling library employment, I'll stress the importance of looking at volunteering in a challenging reference setting if you can swing the time, and you can find a library that is interested in your services. Also, look at professional development opportunities while you are waiting to find a fulfilling job. I think people often overlook the fact that relevant professional development (and this includes attending conferences, seminars, etc.) is a way of fine-tuning your skills, and building your skill set. "Experience" also includes how you keep current in the field. Networking has always been a crucial element in landing a job you are happy with, and if you are out there seeking professional development opportunities you are setting yourself up to land a job.

Keep your head up; I've been having similar discussions with other people like you lately. Keep at it.
nessie1013
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:49:51 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 5
Points: 15
Location: Chicago, IL
This has been exactly my experience over the time I've been job-hunting (since July now). I also had plenty of professional experience while in graduate school, since I did have an assistanship doing reference, among other things. In fact, I have almost no work experience outside a library, museum, or archive! I've interviewed for 7 different positions, and made it to the final round on most of them. However, several times I know that someone with years more experience got the job. This isn't a matter of having a bit more experience in one area-- my two years of professional experience are going up against 5 or 10 years of professional experience. I know another position didn't get funded, and so no one got hired.

I was prepared for my job search to be difficult, since I wasn't interested in being geographically mobile (though I have experience at all types of libraries, so I can apply to many types of jobs), but it's starting to look impossible. I'll try to cobble together part-time or temp positions, but I'm also thinking that I will have to be geographically mobile, even if it may mean straining my fledgling marriage.

It's tough right now for job-searchers in all fields-- NY Times reports that even McDonald's told a job-searcher that they could only hire her part time.
jbruckner
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:06:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Jumpstart - Moderator , Member

Joined: 11/18/2007
Posts: 73
Points: -69
Location: Wisconsin
Folks, just try and remain positive in this tight library job market. My thoughts are always with you.
bcgray
Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:12:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Management - Moderator , Member

Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 348
Points: 922
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Even during a positive economy it could easily take 6 months, 1 year, or more to find a professional job. Ask those in the field (or any field), you would find there a variety of factors in play that result in various lengths of search.

If you let the negativity work into your search, it can harm your search. You will make decisions that are risky or you will put a personality on lists, forums, in-person, etc. that is not you.

Brian C. Gray
Head of Reference & Engineering Librarian
Kelvin Smith Library
Case Western Reserve University
http://blog.case.edu/bcg8
bcg8@case.edu
Hollis
Posted: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:27:12 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/3/2008
Posts: 94
Points: 291
Location: kansas
Your best bet to cover the experience requirement is to volunteer. This means you may have to travel some distance to a smaller place, or work really stinky hours (Friday nights and Saturday mornings), but it is then on paper that you have experience in the real world. You will also have a current reference for that area. There are lots of people out there in the same boat--and even with experience, it is a hard time to move. A year is probably a reasonable time frame, even if you are not being overly picky about where you go.
schabot
Posted: Monday, November 10, 2008 6:25:53 PM

Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/7/2008
Posts: 3
Points: 9
Location: Toronto, Canada
Thank you everyone for the support. Just today I got a call back for a technical college in my area. Not my ideal work environment in the long term, but perhaps it will give me the practical experience I need.

I will make another post about this, but what are people's thoughts about "settling" for a 2-year college vs a 4-year university, if I want to end up in a university in the end (the distinctions between college and university are much sharper here in Canada). Will it hurt me in a year if I am back again applying to universities, or do employers see what I have learned as a college librarian transferable to universities?

@bcgray: Yes, I have had my resume reviewed by third parties, who all gave positive feedback. But that was good advice, hopefully someone will pick it up. :)
joan
Posted: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:48:56 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Job Hunting Tips - Moderator , Member

Joined: 1/4/2008
Posts: 103
Points: 309
Location: Cairo, Egypt
I do think some librarians, at least in the US, would have a bias against experience at a two year college (community college or junior college in US parlance). But maybe this won't be a problem so much if you are fantastic in other capacities and get involved with national organizations and are professionally active.
bcgray
Posted: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:23:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Management - Moderator , Member

Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 348
Points: 922
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
schabot wrote:
I will make another post about this, but what are people's thoughts about "settling" for a 2-year college vs a 4-year university, if I want to end up in a university in the end (the distinctions between college and university are much sharper here in Canada). Will it hurt me in a year if I am back again applying to universities, or do employers see what I have learned as a college librarian transferable to universities?

It will only hurt you if those that are also trying to get the position have experience that is closer to the environment of the hiring position.

I will say though, if you are a strong salesman of your skills, it will not matter as much. It will be harder for you to make the "sale" than a person with university experience but it still can be done. The experiences, skills, etc. are not too different.

I will say that a couple of years ago I taught at a for profit trade school for a while, when work in my current university position. They almost did not hire me unless I could convince them that I was capable of teaching down and assisting those at a lower information/computer skill level. It turned into a funny conversation as I gave examples that the university students are not more advanced in their skills, it is just that those that are at a higher level get more recognition. They conceded that providing computer and library help to anyone required the same skill set.

Brian C. Gray
Head of Reference & Engineering Librarian
Kelvin Smith Library
Case Western Reserve University
http://blog.case.edu/bcg8
bcg8@case.edu
Hollis
Posted: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:08:02 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/3/2008
Posts: 94
Points: 291
Location: kansas
I think this might be a case for an online portfolio of skills. Should you work for a lower level institution, you need to sell your skills and knowledge, which would be a good use of an online document showing how you apply knowledge. It is something to consider, at least.
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