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	<title>Comments on: Whole lot of quacking going on</title>
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		<title>By: Gonzo Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-6658</link>
		<dc:creator>Gonzo Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-6658</guid>
		<description>&quot;Life aint fair&quot;. Wow, that&#039;s profound. The next time some joker gets hauled into court for shooting someone in the face he should trot out the &quot;life aint fair&quot; defense. One reason that life isn&#039;t fair because we humans work so hard to keep it that way. To shrug our shoulders and perpetuate the condition is stupid. When you work hard you should see some kind of payback for that, especially in America. If people don&#039;t want to put in the work or accept the expense to get the degree, then there&#039;s always Wal-Mart.

&quot;People doing the work of our field deserve the title Librarian&quot;. They deserve recognition, sure. But if they want to be considered a professional Librarian they should bite the bullet and go to library school. I mean, if it means so much to them, why wouldn&#039;t they be willing to invest the time and expense in getting a degree? If they don&#039;t want to do so, then I guess that is that. There are plenty of dedicated, knowledgeable medical professionals that aren&#039;t doctors. Or lawyers. Or nurses. Or etc.

As for your snide remarks about Library School . . . how else can I say this . . . screw off. I workerd hard to get out of dead-end industrial jobs and work my way through college and grad school and don&#039;t appreciate that acheivement being denigrated by comparison. No, it isn&#039;t medical school. It isn&#039;t law school. But it&#039;s certainly more comprehensive than other gatekeeper educational requirements, like basic teacher certification. Or maybe you prefer that your nurse or radiological technicians have only on the job training. Yes, Library School is pretty easy fare compared to medical school. But then we are discussing two different fields. And just because one field doesn&#039;t have as steep a certification curve as another doesn&#039;t mean it shouldn&#039;t have one at all. That, also, is stupid.

&quot;Working in a library provides only practical skills; library school gives you the theoretical underpinnings necessary to be a true member of this profession.&quot; True. Attack this all you want, but OJT does not a career professional make. When I took over the job I have now there was a lady who had worked in the library for years who had been running things in the interim until a new librarian could be found. She was smart and far more administratively competant than me. But the interlibrary loan system had lapsed because she didn&#039;t really understand it. New book were being incorrectly catalogged because she was mimicking the work of the librarian before me and using the limited instructions that substituted for an understanding of what cataloging is and how it works. Gee whiz. What a waste of time all those &quot;theoretical underpinnings&quot; are.

&quot;Let&#039;s draw the line between qualified and unqualified&quot;. That&#039;s what the MLS/MLIS does. And while you may not think that library boards care, I guarantee you that one way to ensure that they won&#039;t is to devalue the degree within the profession ourselves. I worked hard for my degree and I don&#039;t want to see this profession go the way of so many others in America.

Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Life aint fair&#8221;. Wow, that&#8217;s profound. The next time some joker gets hauled into court for shooting someone in the face he should trot out the &#8220;life aint fair&#8221; defense. One reason that life isn&#8217;t fair because we humans work so hard to keep it that way. To shrug our shoulders and perpetuate the condition is stupid. When you work hard you should see some kind of payback for that, especially in America. If people don&#8217;t want to put in the work or accept the expense to get the degree, then there&#8217;s always Wal-Mart.</p>
<p>&#8220;People doing the work of our field deserve the title Librarian&#8221;. They deserve recognition, sure. But if they want to be considered a professional Librarian they should bite the bullet and go to library school. I mean, if it means so much to them, why wouldn&#8217;t they be willing to invest the time and expense in getting a degree? If they don&#8217;t want to do so, then I guess that is that. There are plenty of dedicated, knowledgeable medical professionals that aren&#8217;t doctors. Or lawyers. Or nurses. Or etc.</p>
<p>As for your snide remarks about Library School . . . how else can I say this . . . screw off. I workerd hard to get out of dead-end industrial jobs and work my way through college and grad school and don&#8217;t appreciate that acheivement being denigrated by comparison. No, it isn&#8217;t medical school. It isn&#8217;t law school. But it&#8217;s certainly more comprehensive than other gatekeeper educational requirements, like basic teacher certification. Or maybe you prefer that your nurse or radiological technicians have only on the job training. Yes, Library School is pretty easy fare compared to medical school. But then we are discussing two different fields. And just because one field doesn&#8217;t have as steep a certification curve as another doesn&#8217;t mean it shouldn&#8217;t have one at all. That, also, is stupid.</p>
<p>&#8220;Working in a library provides only practical skills; library school gives you the theoretical underpinnings necessary to be a true member of this profession.&#8221; True. Attack this all you want, but OJT does not a career professional make. When I took over the job I have now there was a lady who had worked in the library for years who had been running things in the interim until a new librarian could be found. She was smart and far more administratively competant than me. But the interlibrary loan system had lapsed because she didn&#8217;t really understand it. New book were being incorrectly catalogged because she was mimicking the work of the librarian before me and using the limited instructions that substituted for an understanding of what cataloging is and how it works. Gee whiz. What a waste of time all those &#8220;theoretical underpinnings&#8221; are.</p>
<p>&#8220;Let&#8217;s draw the line between qualified and unqualified&#8221;. That&#8217;s what the MLS/MLIS does. And while you may not think that library boards care, I guarantee you that one way to ensure that they won&#8217;t is to devalue the degree within the profession ourselves. I worked hard for my degree and I don&#8217;t want to see this profession go the way of so many others in America.</p>
<p>Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: Joeyanne Libraryanne &#187; What makes a librarian a librarian?</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-5467</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeyanne Libraryanne &#187; What makes a librarian a librarian?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-5467</guid>
		<description>[...] have recently been some very interesting posts about the difference between librarians who hold a qualification (mainly the American MLS as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have recently been some very interesting posts about the difference between librarians who hold a qualification (mainly the American MLS as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Professional Notes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Liminal Librarian Â» Blog Archive Â» Whole lot of quacking going on</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator>Professional Notes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Liminal Librarian Â» Blog Archive Â» Whole lot of quacking going on</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1543</guid>
		<description>[...] The Liminal Librarian Â» Blog Archive Â» Whole lot of quacking going on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Liminal Librarian Â» Blog Archive Â» Whole lot of quacking going on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mikhail Koulikov</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikhail Koulikov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>Librarian = job function, defined by the building and the task. Not too different, really, from &#039;truck driver&#039;, or &#039;janitor&#039;, or &#039;office worker.&#039;
Information professional, or information broker = what an ML(I)S makes you.

Ain&#039;t nothing out there says you *have* to work in a library once you&#039;ve got the degree. Hell, working in the neighborhood library, happily pulling $40K a year, might be the worst thing you could do!

Look at all the ads for competitive intelligence positions, and the executive search positions, that are hiring MLS graduates. Hell, think of how useful the MLS would be to an investment banking analyst, or even to someone working in real estate.

And, you want the actual academic degree, well, that&#039;s also why there are library and information science phd programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Librarian = job function, defined by the building and the task. Not too different, really, from &#8216;truck driver&#8217;, or &#8216;janitor&#8217;, or &#8216;office worker.&#8217;<br />
Information professional, or information broker = what an ML(I)S makes you.</p>
<p>Ain&#8217;t nothing out there says you *have* to work in a library once you&#8217;ve got the degree. Hell, working in the neighborhood library, happily pulling $40K a year, might be the worst thing you could do!</p>
<p>Look at all the ads for competitive intelligence positions, and the executive search positions, that are hiring MLS graduates. Hell, think of how useful the MLS would be to an investment banking analyst, or even to someone working in real estate.</p>
<p>And, you want the actual academic degree, well, that&#8217;s also why there are library and information science phd programs.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1495</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1495</guid>
		<description>Tim said: &quot;Besides, in my experience, many professional librarians have neither interest nor aptitude for the theory, and understood their degree as career training, not academic preparation.&quot;

Indeed.  None of the MLS (&amp; MLIS, &amp; MISt &amp;c.) programs I&#039;ve looked at have a mandatory thesis or major research paper requirment. At least in Canada, no &quot;academic&quot; masters&#039; program could (or wold want to) get away with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim said: &#8220;Besides, in my experience, many professional librarians have neither interest nor aptitude for the theory, and understood their degree as career training, not academic preparation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed.  None of the MLS (&amp; MLIS, &amp; MISt &amp;c.) programs I&#8217;ve looked at have a mandatory thesis or major research paper requirment. At least in Canada, no &#8220;academic&#8221; masters&#8217; program could (or wold want to) get away with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Chiming in On the Biggies &#171; The Other Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1488</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiming in On the Biggies &#171; The Other Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1488</guid>
		<description>[...] favorite call on this issue is coming from Dorothea Salo, but there are others by Rachel Singer Gordon and Meredith Farkas.Â I know great librarians of both the MLS and non-MLS variety. Â I am one of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] favorite call on this issue is coming from Dorothea Salo, but there are others by Rachel Singer Gordon and Meredith Farkas.Â I know great librarians of both the MLS and non-MLS variety. Â I am one of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1472</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1472</guid>
		<description>&gt;Tim Spalding, OK, not a librarian â€” but Iâ€™m darn pleased heâ€™s on our side.

Heh. Thanks. And I&#039;m glad to be on librarians&#039; side.

I think it might be worth considering that the &quot;theoretical underpinnings&quot; of Library Science are hardly the sole provinence of librarians. Sure, only librarians have to take a class called &quot;Cataloging,&quot; but most of that is practical not theoretical.

If LS was like medicine, why are so many of the authors of LS books not &quot;doctors&quot;? Take Susan Leigh Star, co-author of _Classification and Its Consequences_ or David Weinberger, author of _Everything is Miscelleaneous_. Their degrees are in Sociology and Philosophy respectively. Clay Shirky has just a BA. 

Besides, in my experience, many professional librarians have neither interest nor aptitude for the theory, and understood their degree as career training, not academic preparation. This career preparation is quite real--and should give them an edge over people without it. But this isn&#039;t a case of physicists and lab techs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Tim Spalding, OK, not a librarian â€” but Iâ€™m darn pleased heâ€™s on our side.</p>
<p>Heh. Thanks. And I&#8217;m glad to be on librarians&#8217; side.</p>
<p>I think it might be worth considering that the &#8220;theoretical underpinnings&#8221; of Library Science are hardly the sole provinence of librarians. Sure, only librarians have to take a class called &#8220;Cataloging,&#8221; but most of that is practical not theoretical.</p>
<p>If LS was like medicine, why are so many of the authors of LS books not &#8220;doctors&#8221;? Take Susan Leigh Star, co-author of _Classification and Its Consequences_ or David Weinberger, author of _Everything is Miscelleaneous_. Their degrees are in Sociology and Philosophy respectively. Clay Shirky has just a BA. </p>
<p>Besides, in my experience, many professional librarians have neither interest nor aptitude for the theory, and understood their degree as career training, not academic preparation. This career preparation is quite real&#8211;and should give them an edge over people without it. But this isn&#8217;t a case of physicists and lab techs.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1467</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1467</guid>
		<description>I have a personal connection to this debate because of my mother who ran the library at a small catholic elementary school. When I would tell people my mother was a librarian, they would say &quot;where did she get her degree&quot; and I would say she never got one, they would proceed to tell me that she was not a real librarian. However, she cataloged the books, taught information literacy sessions, purchased the books, ran the book fair, did story time, and maintained the overall collection. To the rest of the outside world she was considered a librarian except by other librarians. Now, don&#039;t get me wrong I understand that people should have a degree, because there is an amount of respect that comes from it. Many people are afraid that institutions will not see the need for the degree, and respect for our work will be devalued. What we are facing is bigger than simply certain people are being called librarians with out the degree. What we are facing is the public not thinking we are important. When people do not see us as important, we are dead ducks. What this really boils down to is survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a personal connection to this debate because of my mother who ran the library at a small catholic elementary school. When I would tell people my mother was a librarian, they would say &#8220;where did she get her degree&#8221; and I would say she never got one, they would proceed to tell me that she was not a real librarian. However, she cataloged the books, taught information literacy sessions, purchased the books, ran the book fair, did story time, and maintained the overall collection. To the rest of the outside world she was considered a librarian except by other librarians. Now, don&#8217;t get me wrong I understand that people should have a degree, because there is an amount of respect that comes from it. Many people are afraid that institutions will not see the need for the degree, and respect for our work will be devalued. What we are facing is bigger than simply certain people are being called librarians with out the degree. What we are facing is the public not thinking we are important. When people do not see us as important, we are dead ducks. What this really boils down to is survival.</p>
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		<title>By: Library Tech Confidential &#187; Blog Archive &#187; When&#8217;s a non-librarian a librarian?</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1459</link>
		<dc:creator>Library Tech Confidential &#187; Blog Archive &#187; When&#8217;s a non-librarian a librarian?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1459</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8216;paraprofessional&#8217;, I greatly enjoyed this post over at The Liminal LibrarianÂ (Update: a solid follow-up post rebutting many arguments advanced in opposition to her original post is now also available). One of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8216;paraprofessional&#8217;, I greatly enjoyed this post over at The Liminal LibrarianÂ (Update: a solid follow-up post rebutting many arguments advanced in opposition to her original post is now also available). One of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why? &#171; BiblioBabble</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286&#038;cpage=1#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>Why? &#171; BiblioBabble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=286#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>[...] A Whole Lot of Quacking Going On    &#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Whole Lot of Quacking Going On    &nbsp; [...]</p>
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