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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;ll tell you what I want, what I really really want</title>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 14:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-356</guid>
		<description>Just found your post, Rachel.  You stated the situation very well.  I&#039;m one of the subscribers to NEWLIB-L. I&#039;ve been weaning myself from responding though lately--I do post occasionally when I feel my opinion may be unique and helpful--often I respond directly off list to the poster.  The same comments seem to be posted over and over and it&#039;s getting old now.  It does seem that this year has generated a lot of negativity by a few people unfortunately.  I&#039;m of the camp that believes that 1) you are in charge of your own career no matter what the conditions and 2) library school is not a technical school, nor should it be, at least not at a Master&#039;s level. Just wanted to say those few words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just found your post, Rachel.  You stated the situation very well.  I&#8217;m one of the subscribers to NEWLIB-L. I&#8217;ve been weaning myself from responding though lately&#8211;I do post occasionally when I feel my opinion may be unique and helpful&#8211;often I respond directly off list to the poster.  The same comments seem to be posted over and over and it&#8217;s getting old now.  It does seem that this year has generated a lot of negativity by a few people unfortunately.  I&#8217;m of the camp that believes that 1) you are in charge of your own career no matter what the conditions and 2) library school is not a technical school, nor should it be, at least not at a Master&#8217;s level. Just wanted to say those few words.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-355</guid>
		<description>I think there is a real tension going on in Library training vs Learning to be a Librarian.  For instance, should we be teaching our library school students sql, or should we be teaching them the basic tools they need to learn sql, or any other database language.  The students want skills, but if they want technical skills, i&#039;d suggest going to technical college, a 2 years degree will give you mastery of sql and such.   But the MLS is a master&#039;s degree, not an associates degree, it should be teaching the basic professional skills of librarianship and then... teach some specializations.  I&#039;m of the school that  says we should be taking the liberal arts stance of &#039;teaching people how to learn many things&#039; instead of the technical stance of &#039;teach a skill&#039;.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One thing that I note is complaining usually does nothing.  If you want to change the world, change it, change yourself, and move on.  But it has been my experience that complaining is the act of demanding someone else to change, and what happens when you do that?  usually either nothing, or backlash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a real tension going on in Library training vs Learning to be a Librarian.  For instance, should we be teaching our library school students sql, or should we be teaching them the basic tools they need to learn sql, or any other database language.  The students want skills, but if they want technical skills, i&#8217;d suggest going to technical college, a 2 years degree will give you mastery of sql and such.   But the MLS is a master&#8217;s degree, not an associates degree, it should be teaching the basic professional skills of librarianship and then&#8230; teach some specializations.  I&#8217;m of the school that  says we should be taking the liberal arts stance of &#8216;teaching people how to learn many things&#8217; instead of the technical stance of &#8216;teach a skill&#8217;.  </p>
<p>One thing that I note is complaining usually does nothing.  If you want to change the world, change it, change yourself, and move on.  But it has been my experience that complaining is the act of demanding someone else to change, and what happens when you do that?  usually either nothing, or backlash.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 01:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-354</guid>
		<description>That ad was an example of viral marketing.  And it was wildly successful.  Hundreds of librarians read it, it shamed a library system known for treating its employees badly, and it must have struck a chord because you are commenting on it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Unless all the unemployed librarians get jobs soon we&#039;ll be seeing more and more of this type of stunt.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Let it be a lesson to the ALA and the library schools... if you educate us and fail to hire us, we will turn against you until you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That ad was an example of viral marketing.  And it was wildly successful.  Hundreds of librarians read it, it shamed a library system known for treating its employees badly, and it must have struck a chord because you are commenting on it.</p>
<p>Unless all the unemployed librarians get jobs soon we&#8217;ll be seeing more and more of this type of stunt.  </p>
<p>Let it be a lesson to the ALA and the library schools&#8230; if you educate us and fail to hire us, we will turn against you until you do.</p>
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		<title>By: librarybob</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>librarybob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-353</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been a library director for 20 years and have seen the disappointment in people I&#039;ve had to tell I wasn&#039;t going to hire ... in large part because &quot;they like books&quot; and little more.  The question is: What do you offer the hiring library?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It may be that a large library somewhere has an acquisitions department filled with people who &quot;like books&quot; and do not have to interact with the public.  Most of us, though, need people who have computer skills and human skills in addition to the (assumed) interest in books and what they contain.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(And I don&#039;t want to get started on those whose &quot;love of books&quot; is confined to a particular genre!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been a library director for 20 years and have seen the disappointment in people I&#8217;ve had to tell I wasn&#8217;t going to hire &#8230; in large part because &#8220;they like books&#8221; and little more.  The question is: What do you offer the hiring library?  </p>
<p>It may be that a large library somewhere has an acquisitions department filled with people who &#8220;like books&#8221; and do not have to interact with the public.  Most of us, though, need people who have computer skills and human skills in addition to the (assumed) interest in books and what they contain.</p>
<p>(And I don&#8217;t want to get started on those whose &#8220;love of books&#8221; is confined to a particular genre!)</p>
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		<title>By: vergelibrarian</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>vergelibrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 19:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-352</guid>
		<description>It can be hard out there for a librarian, especially a new one. And while other professions have challenges, NEWLIB is the type of place for those new librarians that are having problems to ask questions, and for others to pose solutions. When I was an &quot;unemployed librarian&quot; I was heartened to see others were in the same boat as me. And when I was an &quot;underemployed librarian&quot; it was good to get some advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can be hard out there for a librarian, especially a new one. And while other professions have challenges, NEWLIB is the type of place for those new librarians that are having problems to ask questions, and for others to pose solutions. When I was an &#8220;unemployed librarian&#8221; I was heartened to see others were in the same boat as me. And when I was an &#8220;underemployed librarian&#8221; it was good to get some advice.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole Engard</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole Engard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-351</guid>
		<description>It&#039;d be great if more employers were like you :) (&quot;I will hire someone with the right outlook and attitude in an instant over someone who is technically proficient but lives in the past, blames everyone and everything, and never sees a need to step out of their own mind and look around.&quot;) People are so important in the work world.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for Rachel&#039;s post - the firs thought in my mind was &quot;AMEN SISTER!&quot; :)  You are so right - especially that last paragraph - which I&#039;m going to post to my blog right now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;d be great if more employers were like you <img src='http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  (&#8220;I will hire someone with the right outlook and attitude in an instant over someone who is technically proficient but lives in the past, blames everyone and everything, and never sees a need to step out of their own mind and look around.&#8221;) People are so important in the work world.</p>
<p>As for Rachel&#8217;s post &#8211; the firs thought in my mind was &#8220;AMEN SISTER!&#8221; <img src='http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   You are so right &#8211; especially that last paragraph &#8211; which I&#8217;m going to post to my blog right now!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-350</guid>
		<description>Karin -- you are right on. I do a lot of hiring and I wish more students came out of Library School understanding what the profession was really about. It&#039;s about people -- nice people, difficult people, but anyone who is in our building. It&#039;s about being flexible and able to learn and change without expecting to be trained on everything that changes (we ARE librarians after all), it&#039;s about caring more about our patrons than about ourselves -- look to the future, accept what patrons tell us THEY really want, and let our own tradition or comfort and beliefs go. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I will hire someone with the right outlook and attitude in an instant over someone who is technically proficient but lives in the past, blames everyone and everything, and never sees a need to step out of their own mind and look around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karin &#8212; you are right on. I do a lot of hiring and I wish more students came out of Library School understanding what the profession was really about. It&#8217;s about people &#8212; nice people, difficult people, but anyone who is in our building. It&#8217;s about being flexible and able to learn and change without expecting to be trained on everything that changes (we ARE librarians after all), it&#8217;s about caring more about our patrons than about ourselves &#8212; look to the future, accept what patrons tell us THEY really want, and let our own tradition or comfort and beliefs go. </p>
<p>I will hire someone with the right outlook and attitude in an instant over someone who is technically proficient but lives in the past, blames everyone and everything, and never sees a need to step out of their own mind and look around.</p>
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		<title>By: Karin Dalziel</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Karin Dalziel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-349</guid>
		<description>THANK YOU! I&#039;m only 2 semesters into my MLS, and have heard a lot of complaining. I have not even joined NEWLIB-L because, honestly, I&#039;m *excited* about my new career and job prospects. (I came from thinking I was going to be an art professor- talk about hard jobs to get!!)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The ads I see and the jobs described seem great. I&#039;m working on teaching myself programming because I think that will be essential. I&#039;m interested in instructional design for distance education, which is an area I think librarians can make a HUGE difference.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In my first library school class the teacher had us go around and say why we were there. About half the class started their explanation with &quot;I like books.&quot; I wonder if these types are the same ones that will have a hard time finding jobs. Who DOESN&#039;T like books? Libraries are more than books, though. I got in because I like customer service but hate retail- libraries seem like a nice way to help people without trying to force them to buy something.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sorry, got off track. Thanks for the post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THANK YOU! I&#8217;m only 2 semesters into my MLS, and have heard a lot of complaining. I have not even joined NEWLIB-L because, honestly, I&#8217;m *excited* about my new career and job prospects. (I came from thinking I was going to be an art professor- talk about hard jobs to get!!)</p>
<p>The ads I see and the jobs described seem great. I&#8217;m working on teaching myself programming because I think that will be essential. I&#8217;m interested in instructional design for distance education, which is an area I think librarians can make a HUGE difference.</p>
<p>In my first library school class the teacher had us go around and say why we were there. About half the class started their explanation with &#8220;I like books.&#8221; I wonder if these types are the same ones that will have a hard time finding jobs. Who DOESN&#8217;T like books? Libraries are more than books, though. I got in because I like customer service but hate retail- libraries seem like a nice way to help people without trying to force them to buy something.</p>
<p>Sorry, got off track. Thanks for the post!</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-348</guid>
		<description>Here, here Rachel! I think this had to be said, even if it sounds callous to some people. I used to try to offer assistance and advice to some of the same people on NEWLIB-L whom I know you&#039;re describing, and I had to unsubscribe from the list because there was so much rampant negativity. So much blaming of everything (except oneself) and not enough working to make oneself more marketable. Yes, the ALA should have been more up-front about the job situation and library schools should better prepare librarians for the &quot;real world,&quot; but the damage is already done and now people need to figure out how to make the sucky situation they&#039;re in better. Go to conferences, speak at conferences, write an article, learn HTML or a programming language, volunteer at a library, etc.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think complaining is fine. I complained when I couldn&#039;t find a job. Sometimes people need to vent. But venting alone will not find anyone a job and what a lot of these people are doing is more than just venting. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I was one of those people who couldn&#039;t find a job once upon a time. And I worked my butt off trying to develop my skills and do things that would distinguish me from the pack. I learned new technologies, created a spiffy web portfolio, blogged, created a wiki for the ALA Conference, etc. And, yes, it did help me get my job.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;On the other hand, I have also seen people on that same listserv (people who had an easy time finding a job out of school) writing really arrogant posts  about how there must be something wrong with job seekers if they can&#039;t find jobs. Those attitudes should be stamped out as well. There are so many factors involved in getting a job and it&#039;s really frustrating to be told that you are somehow deficient because it&#039;s taking you a while to get a job. I remember reading posts like that and thinking &quot;maybe they&#039;re right. Maybe there is some reason why I&#039;m not finding a job and they are.&quot; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;While a lot of people do need to take responsibility for their situations, other people really need to be more sensitive too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, here Rachel! I think this had to be said, even if it sounds callous to some people. I used to try to offer assistance and advice to some of the same people on NEWLIB-L whom I know you&#8217;re describing, and I had to unsubscribe from the list because there was so much rampant negativity. So much blaming of everything (except oneself) and not enough working to make oneself more marketable. Yes, the ALA should have been more up-front about the job situation and library schools should better prepare librarians for the &#8220;real world,&#8221; but the damage is already done and now people need to figure out how to make the sucky situation they&#8217;re in better. Go to conferences, speak at conferences, write an article, learn HTML or a programming language, volunteer at a library, etc.</p>
<p>I think complaining is fine. I complained when I couldn&#8217;t find a job. Sometimes people need to vent. But venting alone will not find anyone a job and what a lot of these people are doing is more than just venting. </p>
<p>I was one of those people who couldn&#8217;t find a job once upon a time. And I worked my butt off trying to develop my skills and do things that would distinguish me from the pack. I learned new technologies, created a spiffy web portfolio, blogged, created a wiki for the ALA Conference, etc. And, yes, it did help me get my job.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have also seen people on that same listserv (people who had an easy time finding a job out of school) writing really arrogant posts  about how there must be something wrong with job seekers if they can&#8217;t find jobs. Those attitudes should be stamped out as well. There are so many factors involved in getting a job and it&#8217;s really frustrating to be told that you are somehow deficient because it&#8217;s taking you a while to get a job. I remember reading posts like that and thinking &#8220;maybe they&#8217;re right. Maybe there is some reason why I&#8217;m not finding a job and they are.&#8221; </p>
<p>While a lot of people do need to take responsibility for their situations, other people really need to be more sensitive too.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140&#038;cpage=1#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lisjobs.com/blog/?p=140#comment-347</guid>
		<description>Yet another reason why I left library school three years ago, and will be starting again five months from now. Now &lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m not afraid to talk about the factors that would have probably hurt me in the employment market had I finished library school two years ago instead of three years from now at the earliest. Would I be accurate in saying that the majority of new librarians are either working on second (or third, fourth...) careers, graduated from college more than five years ago, have worked for or volunteered at libraries in some capacity for a long time, and/or are returning to the workforce in a new field? I think that the high school --&gt; college --&gt; library school direct path (with no time off in between) is rare, and that it takes a very talented person to be successful right away taking that route. I&#039;m one of the few people in history to not be talented enough, and fail, but now I have a chance to make up for it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Every time I&#039;ve complained about something in my career, I used that moment to &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.lisjobs.com/liminal/2007/02/making-our-careers-happen.html#5147893814082741124&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; make something happen&lt;/a&gt;. After being the worst library school student ever, I went out and got more experience, and figured out how to get myself back in school. I waited until I was ready. I had a moment of professional frustration lately. To fix that, I got more involved... and I was welcomed more than I was turned away. (Thanks Rachel.) Now I have positive momentum again in my career... and that&#039;s the key. Only you can raise your own stock.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I failed myself. I&#039;m responsible. I apologize to librarianship for not being better for and to it in the past. I apologize if I ever said that librarianship failed me. However... I feel that some opportunities that can help one&#039;s positive professional momentum are realistically not available to everyone. I can&#039;t, say, quit my current job to do a six-month unpaid internship... but for someone else, that issue might not even exist. (I&#039;m sorry... I&#039;m dancing around what is probably among the most difficult topics in our field to discuss, with the discussion itself bordering on unethical.) Everyone&#039;s professional path will vary, and some will just be easier than others. You just have to work with what you have available to you. Hopefully, being overlooked due to a lack of life experience won&#039;t be part of the equation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another reason why I left library school three years ago, and will be starting again five months from now. Now <br />I&#8217;m not afraid to talk about the factors that would have probably hurt me in the employment market had I finished library school two years ago instead of three years from now at the earliest. Would I be accurate in saying that the majority of new librarians are either working on second (or third, fourth&#8230;) careers, graduated from college more than five years ago, have worked for or volunteered at libraries in some capacity for a long time, and/or are returning to the workforce in a new field? I think that the high school &#8211;> college &#8211;> library school direct path (with no time off in between) is rare, and that it takes a very talented person to be successful right away taking that route. I&#8217;m one of the few people in history to not be talented enough, and fail, but now I have a chance to make up for it.</p>
<p>Every time I&#8217;ve complained about something in my career, I used that moment to <a HREF="http://www.lisjobs.com/liminal/2007/02/making-our-careers-happen.html#5147893814082741124" REL="nofollow"> make something happen</a>. After being the worst library school student ever, I went out and got more experience, and figured out how to get myself back in school. I waited until I was ready. I had a moment of professional frustration lately. To fix that, I got more involved&#8230; and I was welcomed more than I was turned away. (Thanks Rachel.) Now I have positive momentum again in my career&#8230; and that&#8217;s the key. Only you can raise your own stock.</p>
<p>I failed myself. I&#8217;m responsible. I apologize to librarianship for not being better for and to it in the past. I apologize if I ever said that librarianship failed me. However&#8230; I feel that some opportunities that can help one&#8217;s positive professional momentum are realistically not available to everyone. I can&#8217;t, say, quit my current job to do a six-month unpaid internship&#8230; but for someone else, that issue might not even exist. (I&#8217;m sorry&#8230; I&#8217;m dancing around what is probably among the most difficult topics in our field to discuss, with the discussion itself bordering on unethical.) Everyone&#8217;s professional path will vary, and some will just be easier than others. You just have to work with what you have available to you. Hopefully, being overlooked due to a lack of life experience won&#8217;t be part of the equation.</p>
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